Inside the Media Mind of Bree Fowler: Special Black Hat Episode!

Christine Blake: Welcome to Inside the Media Minds. We are your co-hosts Christine Blake

Madison Farabaugh: and Madison Farabaugh. 

Christine Blake: This show features in-depth interviews with tech reporters who share everything from their biggest pet peeves to their favorite stories. 

Madison Farabaugh: From our studio here at W2 Communications, let's go Inside the Media Minds. 

Christine Blake: Hey everyone! Welcome to Inside the Media Minds, our special Black Hat episode. We're gearing up for the Black Hat conference in Las Vegas, which will be August 3rd. So we had the pleasure of talking to Bree Fowler. She is an experienced freelancer focused on cybersecurity and consumer tech. Previously, she's written for CNET, the AP, and Consumer Reports, and has experience as a TV analyst and conference speaker. She had some really great insight about how she approaches the Black Hat conference, from her schedule to interviewing different types of experts at the show, to attending sessions. So it was really useful to hear her take. Madison, what did you think? 

Madison Farabaugh: Yeah, I also really enjoyed hearing Bree's perspective on just the freelance industry right now. So we kind of got a behind-the-scenes look at how she approaches different projects she's working on. Also, just what it's like to be a freelancer right now, as the media is changing so much and the landscape, and how AI is even impacting that. I think listeners will learn a lot from Bree in that regard.

Christine Blake: Yeah, agreed. And she had some really good advice for vendors to break through the noise at Black Hat as well. So we hope you all enjoy this episode. 

Hey, Bree, thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast. We're excited to talk to you.

Bree Fowler: Excited to be with you.

Christine Blake: Yeah, thanks for joining. We're talking about our special, this is our special edition for Black Hat coming up at the beginning of August, and before we dive into talking about Black Hat, we'd love to get to know more about your background and your experience. We've worked with you over the years in various capacities, but can you give us a quick overview of your career journey and where you are at now?

Bree Fowler: Yeah, I have been in journalism for a very long time now, but specifically in tech and cybersecurity. I've been covering cybersecurity for probably, I want to say, about 15 years. You know, I got thrown into it kind of unexpectedly when I was a reporter on the tech desk at the AP. There was a major data breach. We didn't have a cybersecurity reporter, and I happened to be there. I got really interested in it. Ended up writing a lot of stories, and it just kind of snowballed from there. I covered cybersecurity for the AP, then went on to Consumer Reports, where I helped them set up their IoT security and privacy testing program, and eventually to CNET, where I spent four years until about a year ago when I left and started freelancing.

Christine Blake: Great, that's an awesome overview. We appreciate that, and I know as a current freelancer, you probably have a lot of different perspectives and background as well.

Bree Fowler: Yeah, freelancing has definitely been different. The media landscape has changed a lot. There aren't so many full-time reporters out there anymore, and there really aren't a lot of people covering cybersecurity like there used to, used to be. So I've kind of tried to balance writing about cybersecurity and tech for a variety of consumer, business, enterprise, trade publications, general news, that kind of thing. With doing content creation for cybersecurity and tech companies, you know, doing more on the other end of that. Companies are starting to focus more on owned media. You know the stuff that they create themselves. It's really hard to get earned media these days. So I've been helping by writing news stories, doing thought leadership interviews, podcasts, videos, social media posting for things like LinkedIn. You know whatever companies need.

Madison Farabaugh: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so, as a freelancer, how do you typically, I guess, approach new projects? Is that something that you'll pitch to these companies that you might be writing for these publications, or do they ever reach out to you and request your services? What's the kind of ratio and breakdown there?

Bree Fowler: You know, generally they reach out to me. I haven't really been soliciting. I mean, when I go to conferences and meet people, and I have connections in the industry that I made over the years. You know, I talk to people at PR agencies, companies, you know, and tried to make connections and find projects that way, but mostly it's been companies approaching me, and I do a lot of you know consulting with them about what they need to see if maybe there there's some work that I can do to help them out.

Christine Blake: Yeah, as someone who's been in the industry for a while and writing in different, in different ways, I'm curious what you said about paid and sponsored media being a lot more prevalent now, and how earned media is harder to get. Why do you think that is?

Bree Fowler: Well, there's just less media out there. You know, we've seen so many layoffs in the industry. You know, especially when it comes to stories that don't make money. I mean, I was at CNET for four years, and we used to think that you know, security, you were Teflon coded because there was such a learning curve to writing about this stuff, and there was an interest in protecting consumers and protecting enterprises, and writing about those kinds of topics, you know, I've done a lot in election security. You know, in 2016, 2020 with the elections, a lot of political, you know, looking at disinformation, misinformation. 

These stories just aren't getting the same kind of pickup from publications that they used to. I mean, I think a lot of it is due to our political climate, but it's also due to the SEO apocalypse. You know, tech publications want stories where you people are going to click on them and actually go to the story versus the AI summary, and then buy something because they're getting kickbacks. And unless you're writing about VPNs, there just really isn't that in cybersecurity or even AI, which you know we thought was such a big deal.

Christine Blake: Yeah, and it kind of goes into the impact that AI has had on journalism too, and SEO versus GEO and all of that.

Bree Fowler: Absolutely, and it makes it harder for PR companies and for companies to pitch, there there's no journalists to pitch to. You know, where do you get your experts placed? Where do you get that your own SEO? And that's by having content on your site or you know placing things in paid publications. Which I mean, I think a lot of people kind of look at those suspiciously because they're you know trying to pass themselves off as real journalism when they aren't necessarily. You know, I think it's I've focused more on creating quality content for company websites that are written like journalism, where you know maybe you're doing a Q&A with a CEO, or you know, some other kind of thought leadership or expert commentary. I think that's a lot more genuine, and I think people really do see the difference.

Christine Blake: Yeah, I like that approach, and I think yeah, I think that's a lot more authentic and helpful for people visiting the website and to get the messaging across.

Bree Fowler: Absolutely.

Christine Blake: So, obviously, you've written for consumer tech. You mentioned election security, cybersecurity, B2B, B2C. What, what kind of topic interests you the most personally?

Bree Fowler: You know, I, cybersecurity has always been fascinating to me. It's one of those things where you're always learning something new. You think you've seen, well, some people will think they've seen it all. I know I haven't seen it all. Hackers are some of the most creative, interesting people out there. Whether they're you know playing for the good guys or the bad guys, and you know it's always interesting to see how people can break things and how you know you can get past the best safeguards. There, there's you know, the nature finds a way. 

People find a way because they're naturally curious and creative, and now they have AI tools to kind of do the grunt work to help them scale things. You know, people, cyber criminals use AI in the same way that you know people will use it for work. It's about scaling. It's about getting things done faster. You know, being able to make things more detailed and more sophisticated, and the applications that we're seeing, you know, cyber criminals use are, are just absolutely fascinating at a lot of levels.

Madison Farabaugh: Yeah, one of the fascinating things that I've seen in client research even is how different you know cyber criminal groups are using AI, and it's almost like a business. Like they are operating the same way that many companies are, and like you mentioned, scaling in terms of how they're deploying AI, how they're trying it in new ways. So that's been an interesting trend to monitor as well.

Bree Fowler: Yeah, I mean, AI, I mean, cybersecurity has always been a business. It's always been run top down. It's organized crime. You know, whether you're talking about you know the Italian mob back in the day. That was business too. It's just not legitimate business. Look at drug lords. That's that's a Fortune 500 company. It's just illegal. Cybercrime is no different, and honestly, it can take it to levels that those guys had never even thought of, had even before AI, there's just so much you can do with computers. So much you can do to remain anonymous. You know, you don't, you don't need guns. You don't need any kind of violence or or whatever. It's, it's just amazing, and, and law enforcement knows that too, you know. They, they've been fighting these guys for a long time, and you know that they're looking at it the same way, and they're looking at how they can protect consumers, how they can protect businesses, because without internet security, everything falls apart on so many levels.

Madison Farabaugh: Yep, absolutely. Transitioning a little bit into the main focus of this episode is all things Black Hat. So, Bree, I know you've attended in the past. Would love to know how you typically approach reporting at conferences such as Black Hat, and even how you're thinking of approaching this year's conference.

Bree Fowler: You know, it has changed now that I'm a freelancer and doing work for companies and doing work for a handful of different businesses and organizations versus just having you know one publication and one set of marching orders. You know, it's about balancing content creation and also writing stories, and no matter how you look at it, we all have not enough time to get what we need to get done, and the playbook remains the same. You know, you have to overplan. You need to figure out what you absolutely need to do when you're there, like if something, if, if you want to watch a panel and you don't actually need to do it right then you know these things are taped. They're, they're streamable. Do it later when you know your brain has a time to just take a take a step back from all that, and I think too that with especially with panels and things like you can have a better idea of what you actually need to sit through, you know, and what you can fast forward or just skip entirely after the conference is over. I like to go to keynotes, if anything, more to talk to people and, and get a feel of the vibe and just the general themes of the conference. I don't think they've announced keynotes yet, but definitely something I'll be looking for. 

Other than that, it's mainly meetings, and it's very tempting to go back to back to back to back and have a dozen a day, but it is exhausting, and especially in the days leading up to the conference, before there's a press room, the Mondays and Tuesdays, you have to have some kind of location. And I feel like those, you know, it's a lot of running back and forth through Mandalay Bay to different areas, only to find out that that coffee house, coffee shop that you thought you were going to be able to meet someone that has been rented out by a cybersecurity company, and you can't get in there and forget about Starb, Starbucks is the worst place to meet anyone. The line is a mile long. Everyone has already drank too much free coffee, and there are no chairs ever. So it's, it's always good to kind of have backup plans and to keep things local. 

I don't do anything offsite. I've gotten invited to some really cool parties that are outside of the Mandalay Bay complex. I generally do not go, or to dinners. It's just just being able to get anywhere in Vegas. I'm a New Yorker. I think I can walk everywhere. I'm a runner. Like I'm in great shape, and I prefer to go places on my own two feet. You cannot walk in this Vegas heat. I remember my first year thinking I could walk to a meeting at a different casino. Oh, it's, it's only a mile, and it's 7 a.m. Like, how bad can it be for a, for a breakfast meeting, and I got halfway there, and I was already a puddle. So, and you know, escalators and things like that. So, leave extra travel time. Don't overdo it. Drink lots of water. If anyone offers you something to drink during a meeting, if you're in a suite with like you know the setup of beverages, grab a bottle of water to go, even if you already have one, and make sure that you schedule in mental health breaks to eat, to hydrate, to you know just let your brain relax because you're going to eventually forget who you're talking to, what they actually do for a living, and and when things get so jumbled, it really doesn't do anyone any good, and the meeting is just pointless.

Christine Blake: Yeah, great tips, great advice. Totally agree. Definitely not go to Starbucks. But I always wonder that with journalists because you meet some, some, some people like you meet back to back to back, and it's, who did I talk to about what topic? And it's, it can get a, very jumbled, like you said. So you mentioned going to keynotes. I get that. That makes sense because those are kind of exciting. It's the big room, all the excitement around the keynotes. Are there any other topics that you're interested in exploring this year specifically?

Bree Fowler: I mean, I definitely am very into the political end of things, we've got midterms coming up. The last couple years just haven't been great for those kinds of panels. I think the Trump administration has kind of put the kibosh to having people go to Black Hat and DEF CON, so you get a lot of just the same people from the last administration showing up and and saying the same things, so that you know, I'm hoping maybe they'll they'll be a good keynote in that area. AI is so very tired at this point, but it is important. 

I'm interested in seeing how people are breaking AI and how they're getting past safeguards, things like Claude Mythos and these frontier models are super interesting to me because security researchers are taking a good look at them, but they are going to get out at some point. And are we prepared for that? This is kind of like a, you know, quantum Y2K thing without a, without an end date. You know that that's all interesting to me. You know I, I still like the demos of hacking various IoT. Those are a lot of fun. People always find new creative things, and they make for good stories. And I probably will end up doing something about deepfakes and how we're seeing those in the wild, and and social engineering. You know, we've really seen as much as AI has become so high tech and made cybercrime high tech. Social engineering has also become a huge, huge deal, and anybody without any kind of technical expertise is capable of pulling off that kind of stuff.

Christine Blake: Yeah, so true 

Madison Farabaugh: And as you're prepping for these different, that was super helpful to hear all of the topics that you're, that you're keen to hear more about this year. As you're kind of prepping your schedule and perhaps reviewing any pitches from PR or even cybersecurity vendors, how far in advance do you typically book briefings? And are there any, is there any interest in booking briefings, you know, pre-Black Hat or post-Black Hat? I know it can be very noisy around that specific week, and so in terms of balancing your schedule, is there interest in pre-briefings, or how do you typically like to balance yourself out?

Bree Fowler: Post briefings I just generally I am too burnout and tired, and I've already talked. The whole point of going to a conference is to meet people face to face and kind of like internally vet them. You know, does this person know who they're talking, what they're talking about? Are they, you know, actually, an expert in what they say they are, and can they form a sentence? You know, are they worth using for stories down the road? Without that, there's really no point. That said, like especially when I was working for CNET and for the AP, you know, I did a setup story. I would do pre-reporting and pre-interviews, so I could have a story out there before it started, and then I could update it as I went along, and just kind of add comments and things because you just don't have when you're writing need to write in real time. You just don't have the the time and the bandwidth to do that, and you want to make things as easy as possible.

Plus, a lot of us are-you know-we're on the West Coast, but we're working on an East Coast deadline. So, you know, which is has its benefits and and its, and its drawbacks too. It's not great waking up to a ton of email in the morning, but and and having to get you know stories done by 2 o'clock potentially, so editors don't have to stay way past their, their time. And you know, especially with the AP, when we had newspaper deadlines to worry about, with the internet, things are definitely it's easier to update stuff, and we are in a 24 hour news cycle, but now I mean things are a little less less crazy for me, and it is nice to have people kind of go away at 2 o'clock and and let you you know do the rounds. I hit a lot of parties and receptions and events because that's where you actually meet people, and in a more low-key environment. So I like to definitely have my evenings free for that kind of stuff.

Christine Blake: Yeah, that's good to know. We were going to ask you about that actually, and I do think there is value in going to those informal events because you can talk to different people in a different kind of vibe setting. You know, so that makes sense.

Bree Fowler: Definitely.

Christine Blake: Something that, that you mentioned, and it's you know going to conferences to meet people face to face, and I think we've seen the media list for this year. We've talked to a lot of our friends who are reporters, and it seems like there's a little bit less media attendance this year, and been that trend. And I'm curious, what's enticing about going in person versus covering the news that happens there from afar. Is it that face to face, or is there some other kind of component that should entice reporters to go in person?

Bree Fowler: It is definitely the face to face of being able to meet with people. You know, cybersecurity like pioneered the whole remote work thing way before COVID. They were one of those, you know, industries where I would ask people like, "Where's your company based, and where are you right now? And it was always something very different and often wacky. You know, you'd have, "Oh, I'm at, you know, in Thailand or my vineyard in Napa, or, you know, they're they're all over the place. So when people are spread out like that, even if you are based in San Francisco, which is probably the closest thing we have to a hub, a lot of these companies aren't, and their people certainly aren't. And this is the one time that people get together. 

And Vegas, you know, people come because they just want to come to Vegas. You know, a lot of people stay for DEF CON; they do it on their own dime. So you know you have all sorts of people come, and Black Hat is definitely more of a lure, I think, because then RSA, RSA is so expensive to go to. The badges are incredibly pricey. Getting a hotel in San Francisco for especially during RSA is prohibitively expensive for media. I didn't go for many years, even when I was offered, you know, panels and to speak. I really had to fight for it because it just wasn't in budgets. You can go to Vegas and stay, you know, pretty close to Mandalay Bay for less than 100 bucks a night, so people will come and they'll eat the free food and they'll they'll convene and see their friends that they haven't seen for a year, and it's it's a great experience. They call it Hacker Summer Camp for a reason.

Madison Farabaugh: I love that. Lots of lots of incentives there. It sounds like. What and with I guess all of the noise around Black Hat. How do you recommend, this is a question we love to ask because it's, it's very helpful for our audiences. How do you recommend cybersecurity vendors or their PR teams, communications teams, cut through the noise leading up to these events, perhaps onsite at these events, what typically catches your attention there?

Bree Fowler: It's it's really hard. Booths are crazy expensive, and it's so much marketing noise, and so many salespeople that actually don't have a lot of expertise that are just talking solutions. Like I hate the word solutions because it means nothing. For, you know, that they don't actually understand how they work, and it's a lot of demos and a lot of free T-shirts, and it's so much money is spent. There's one you know CEO of a smaller company who told me you know he gets a suite at the Four Seasons and entertains actual clients there, and they have food, and people calm down, and it's nice and cool, and they have a nice view. And he spends so much less than he would on a booth. You know, smaller companies they're trying to get their foot in the door. They have that kind of presence. Big ones, they're always there. 

Others have, I've seen big companies, blue chip companies, just not do it anymore because it's not worth it to them from a money in, money out standpoint. It it is really hard to cut through the noise, especially if you're going that kind of marketing route. Wacky booths are always fun. I love interactive anything where I can pick locks or crack a safe for a free T-shirt. I'm like a moth to a flame, but I'm not actually buying their products, so I don't know how much that actually helps them. You know, it's just really hard. It helps to have good experts on site. 

I mean, if you want to connect with the media, put your smart people out there, bring them to Vegas. There have been cutbacks in cybersecurity too, and their, you know companies have gotten rid of non-essential travel. I've talked to you know I'm a part of a run club at DEF CON, and I know a lot of people aren't coming this year because they their their companies have just canceled non-essential travel, and the because the money isn't there, or they're worried about you know gas prices or tariffs or inflation. Like it's it's really uncertain in a lot of ways, and you wouldn't think that would hit cybersecurity like other industries, but it it actually does. So you know you got to get the most, for your buck, and I really think it pays to bring your smart people and leave the salespeople at home.

Christine Blake: Yeah, agreed. That's going to get through that noise and get more more visibility with the right audience. Are you running at, in Vegas this year?

Bree Fowler: Oh yeah, I am again training for this, will be my fourth New York City Marathon, and I've run other marathons too. But yeah, I don't have a choice. And DEF CON has a great run club. We're out there at 6 a.m. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, doing way too many miles in the Vegas heat. But you know, when it's all hackers, it just adds like a level of wackiness that gets you through. Well, it's only 85, and it's a dry heat. You know.

Christine Blake: Dry heat. That's, that's the difference. Yep. I love, I'm with you on the wackiness and the,the spectacle that it that is Vegas. I, I find it fascinating and hilarious and weird and all that so. 

Bree Fowler: Yeah. 

Christine Blake: Wanted to ask too something that comes up a lot with cybersecurity vendors that we work with is the, the value of putting out research at the show. To what extent does it have to like really make a splash? A lot of them are talking about doing it maybe the week before, the week after to kind of like get around the craziness. Like, what are, what are your thoughts in terms of research at the show or news at the show in general?

Bree Fowler: Yeah, I mean, I definitely wouldn't do it the week after. A lot of people go on vacation, like, or they're doing mop up from the events. I have a hard enough time writing up the interviews that I actually did do, during the event. I'm not going to do more. Releasing stuff under embargo ahead of time is great. I think you really need to promote it, though, because a lot of people do, do that, and it better be worth the time of the people you're pitching it to. This is not the time for inside baseball. This is when you want those, you know, things that people are going to write about. 

You know, when we write a story in any kind of journalism, any kind of event, it's it's got to answer the question: Why do I care? You know why, why is someone going to read this? And cybersecurity sometimes, like you can have great research that is super in the weeds and absolutely brilliant, but if it doesn't resonate with people or if people don't understand it, it's it it just doesn't matter. But yeah, I mean, especially if you can peg it to the like broad, overarching themes that people are going to be writing about. Like when I did the previous stories, it's great to have numbers and research and, and things like that to put in there from the get go. So that's great. That that said, like people, if you send out stuff too early, people put it off and they forget about it. I've done, I've done this myself, and then it's a mad rush. But you know, especially if you can make researchers available for interviews ahead of time, that can be super helpful too. The worst thing is when PR people have offered me interviews with people, and then they're not available.

Madison Farabaugh: Yeah.

Bree Fowler: And it does happen.

Christine Blake: Yeah, no, I'm sure. Yeah, no, thanks. Thanks. This is really helpful, and it's helpful to hear you kind of walk us through the best approach and how to navigate this type of a situation because it's always a big high pressure environment with expectations, and it's good to kind of understand what works best. 

So before we wrap up, we do have a couple listener questions for you, Bree. One of them being: Given your current status as a freelancer, what are the biggest changes you've seen in the media? Kind of a different experience to different publications.

Bree Fowler: You know, one of the biggest changes is that there are so many freelancers now. I was laid off from CNET along with about half of the staff. It took four rounds of layoffs to finally get to me. There are a lot of good people out there that are freelancing, and I would love to have a full time job right now and not have to constantly hustle. But that you know is not in the cards right now, just based on the current media environment. So you know, certain publications that are dependent on freelancers are very nice to freelancers. 

Others just completely abuse the fact that people don't have a full time job and are offering pennies, literally, for words. And you know, oh, you're doing this for exposure. Well, you're not really that big of a publication, so it's really not exposure, you know. And people, people deserve fair money for their quality work, and also for people to return emails and you know, honor agreements to publish things, stuff like that. You know, you never know when you're going to need someone, and it's, it's good to treat people with respect and decency.

Christine Blake: Yeah, agreed. 

Madison Farabaugh: And then our last listener question. What was the last conversation that shocked you, Bree? Whether that was an interview with an expert or a new report that you had covered, what conversation really either caught you off guard or had some surprising new finding for you?

Bree Fowler: You know, honestly, I feel like it's been a lot of the same lately. You know, it's interesting not, not so much shocking, but I'm always amazed at what AI can do and how it's gone from being marketing buzzwords and you know what was really machine learning when you would walk the the floor of Black Hat. You're, you know, pre-COVID, people were talking about AI, but it wasn't AI; it was machine learning, or it was just complete marketing buzz. But now AI is real, and it's a prerequisite. And people are finding ways to use it to break it to do things that we never thought would be possible. 

I mean, you look at deepfakes. A few years ago, I would go to Black Hat or DEF CON, and they would do a demo of a deepfake, and it just, it was fake. It looked like a fake. You could pretty much figure it out. And now there are deep fakes out there that are shocking. That are, you know, they look so good. And even when you look at videos on social media, these AI-generated, you know, not just slop, but videos that people are creating creatively, you know, that are transparent about the fact they're AI - generated. They are a lot better than anything we would have seen a couple years ago, especially outside of a academic or state-sponsored kind of setting. And it'll be real interesting to see how this continues to shake up the world of cybersecurity, and how you know those videos, the the just the access and the ability and the affordability of AI technologies is going to change the industry.

Christine Blake: It's accessible to everyone right now, so yeah, definitely. Well, Bree, it's been great chatting with you and hearing about your background and your approach to Black Hat and all of that. So, thank you for joining Inside the Media Minds, and we'll look forward to seeing you at Black Hat in early August.

Bree Fowler: Thanks very much for having me.

Christine Blake: Thank you for listening to today's episode of Inside the Media Minds. To learn more about our podcast and to hear from some of our past guests, please visit us at W2Comm.com. 

Madison Farabaugh: You can also subscribe anywhere podcasts are found.